If your living in another country, like China, you might be surprised your not quite as immersed as you think. I put myself to the test in four major categories.
Chinese Language: 15% Immersed
But even 15% may be generous. Even though I am living in China, I am in a foreign teacher’s apartment complex living with Westerners. I am also an English teacher so I don’t speak much Chinese on the job. But, I definitely make a concerted effort to speak Chinese, whether it be with friends, street vendors, or a taxi driver. I also study Chinese nearly everyday. But in the end, that only amounts to so much when my living and working environment are both primarily English.. I wonder how much better my Chinese would be if I was at a 50% immersion rate in speaking Chinese?
Chinese Food: 90% Immersed
By far, my highest immersion rate. I eat Chinese food nearly every meal, in addition to Chinese snacks and drinks. I eat Western food maybe once every two weeks. I would like to eat Western food more if I could but I am 30 minutes away from downtown which is the closest place to get something like Subway or a (so-so) pizza. Even though it would be nice to get a break from rice and noodles more often, it’s OK because I do like most of the Chinese food I eat.
People: 40% Immersed
A significant portion of this 40% percent comes from my job being in a classroom full of Chinese students, from which I have gleaned a tremendous amount of Chinese culture. In my opinion, there are fewer places closer to any culture than a classroom full of young students. I also have Chinese friends that I do go out with, but not nearly as much as, say my neighbor, Mike, who I often hang out with. I have found cultural and language differences to be an obstacle in creating the types of bonds with Chinese that I am able to with my Western friends.That said, I have become friendly with many Chinese people.
Pop Culture: 50% Immersed
I have gone out for KTV on many occasions. For those of you who are not familiar, KTV is karaoke in China, which might be the number one social activity among students. I play Chinese chess more than any other Chinese person I know, have learned to drink black tea (and like it), and to be modest when someone gives me a compliment. Though, when it comes to TV, internet, and music, it’s all American. I have divided this category even at 50%.
These percentages aren’t all that scientific, rather just estimates based on how I have lived my life here in China during the first year. In total, I am somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 immersed in Chinese culture, learning a lot more about China than the 0% immersion rate before I came.
Interesting! I think it’s very understandable that for a English teacher it’s harder to get the Chinese language percentage up and the more you have foreign friend, the more you tend to speak English. But you’re doing well in the other sections!
Hmm, what should I give to myself? At home it’s Chinese all the time because of my boyfriend. Also classes are almost completely in Chinese. But I also use a lot of English (and now even Finnish) with other foreign students. Some days it’s almot 100% Chinese, but on avarage maybe something between 50-75%.
For Chinese food it’s maybe about 60-70%. Sometimes I cook Finnish food and eat some Western food pretty much every week. But most of the food I eat is Chinese.
I don’t have many Chinese friends, but sure spend a lot of time with my bf because we live together. Now the percentage might be somewhere between 50%, but I hope to get it up in the near future. (And during the summer when old friend go back home it can be almost 100% for two months.)
Pop culture is basically listening to Jay Chou and watching Chinese dating shows from TV. I definitely watch too much American TV series, but can’t help it :) Maybe I could give myself something like 30-40%.
I think that’s great you speak up to 75% Chinese, you are really putting yourself in a great situation to become fluent. I should find a way to get the percentage up. Not being an English teacher would help!
The Language yes, tell me about it!
And I have forgotten half the words I learnt back then. My current classes are in English. My classmates speak English. Everytime I tell myself I’m gonna speak to my friends in Chinese and I do start saying stuff in Chinese and soon enough it reverts back to English.
Whenever I see a laowai casually making a joke in Chinese I’m like “how do you guys do that?” cos I just can’t seem to grasp the language enough to sound as fluent as they do. They sound just like the locals!!!
Nevertheless I would like to think I’m improving. Bordering on a 30% maybe. ;-)
Cheers
30% isn’t really bad at all, about a 1/3 of your day in Chinese!
I found your post quite interesting. I think that immersion (I may have said this before) is really hard. I love China and Chinese people but I have always found to hard to share reallly a lot of things with my chinese friends, because somehow they see me like an outsider, someone that really does not understand, or find my opinions/point of views/ acting as “funny” or weird. So whenever I was in China it was always easier for me to get close to other foreigners. I am planning on going back soon, and I really hope I can integrate myself. I am planning a “long stay” and I really want to be a part of China, and fit in. Any recommendation? Apart from getting fluent in the language (I have been studying many years) and learning culture, obviously.
The language really is the most important thing– in addition to participating in cultural things like playing majiang, eating hot pot, ect. It is always easier to get close to people of your own culture, it’s just human nature. Look at Chinese people in America, they all stick together as well. In Chin, it’s about joining in with the Chinese in what they actually do. Things like KTV, Majiang, talking on QQ. If you participate, I think they will respect you for that and stop treating you like an outsider.
Immersed? In a society where shitting, pissing and spitting on the street, killing people/”dissidents” and skinning dogs alive is called “culture”?
A society which is absurd beyond belief? On a daily basis. A lemming like country. Where inferior complex, stupidity, racism, ignorance are called “virtues”? Where lies, cheating, corruption, jealousy, lowness, copying and killing is called “morale” and “glorious”? Where prostitutes are called hair cutters? No thanks. China is dirty inhuman and the world knows it.
Wait 5-10 years more, and with the inevitable worldwide scarcity of oil supplies and resources the topic “China” will dissolve itself into hot bloody air. And that’s what China is and always was. Hot Air. A barking dog. China will collapse. Mark my words.
Interesting post Tom.
Language and culture are most important in my opinion (even though the food here is practically treated as a religious experience). In my time in China I’ve adhered to a few rules which have had dramatic implications on my experience here which I suggest others new to China consider:
1 – Live with Chinese people. I’ve only lived with Chinese friends and it has resulted in me being in a Chinese language environment every single day. It might take some time to find a compatible roommate with similar interests, considering that Chinese people are often into other things, but it’ll happen eventually.
2 – Hang out with Chinese people. This one is important, too. The vast majority of foreigners I know in China hang out exclusively with other foreigners, pretty much regardless of how long they’ve been here. Most of them speak broken or poor Chinese and have only a superficial understanding of Chinese people and society.
Well I 100% agree that living with Chinese people is truly immersing yourself. It provides a unique experience that most others won’t have. Of course not everyone is willing to do that. Personally, I like living in my own place no matter where I am. But, having a good network of Chinese friends that you go out with is also a great way to increase your experience.
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A good post Tom and it made me think. This is my first time visiting your blog. I’ve been here 9 years straight this month. Am I immersed? I would say in comparison to most expats that I’m immersed more than most. Still, less than some.
But I think there becomes some kind of glory issue within the expat community where there is a contest to be this “China expert” where I think in the end, it’s a straw-man trophy. I’ve seen expats here for a shorter time than me, that speak better and know more. There are aspects to China life that I am may know than others. It all depends on our own experience and what you’ve set out to accomplish. Too many expats listen intently when another expat speaks Chinese, not to be glad and respect that person’s ability, but to judge who’s Chinese is better. News flash to all the Chinese experts out there in language, in “been there done that”…it really doesn’t matter. At the end of the day, what matters, is if you are content with what you set out accomplish. After 9 years, my Chinese is not that great, but it’s a million miles better than where I was 9 years ago. But I’ve seen my ability to adapt to aspects of the culture better than some of the so-called experts (the people I see complain the most are the ones with better Chinese)
Also, the Chinese culture is very diverse (differences from Guangdong, to Jiangsu, to the North provinces, to the Western provinces)…many Chinese are not immersed in aspects of their own culture. No expat should feel ashamed about lack of immersion and the more immersion isn’t necessarily a badge of honor.
I’m from the States; many aspects of the American culture in which I’m not immersed…so why should it bother us if we’re not immersed in another culture in which most of us live temporarily? Have fun, enjoy what you can, immerse when and where you can (time is a constraint to many of us). Learn the language if that’s your thing and if time allows.
Sorry Tom if I hijacked your post, appreciate the opportunity to reply and thank you for getting the ball rolling.
Well I definitely agree it is not a contest. The purpose of this blog is to test the assumption that because you are living in China, you are somehow 100% immersed. Of course, every Westerner in China is an expat, not an immigrant. And there is really a huge difference. Expats aren’t going to be 100% immersed, since it’s just temporary, usually for work that requires English anyways. The only things I would strictly advise against any expat doing, is not being willing to try things. You don’t have to like it or agree with it, but as long as you gave it a shot that’s what matters. Of course, most expats are quite good with this, since it takes a bit of a unique personality to pack your bags and move to China in the first place.
I don’t count teaching time. Yes, you learn a lot, but ultimately I can’t count a class on English language and culture as “Chinese time.” They’re on our cultural turf in our language.
My two mao worth on this topic is here:
The Best Decisions We Ever Made in China (#1): ditching the laowai ghetto
China-friendly New Year’s Resolutions for Laowais
There are lots of little and big things a laowai can do to get out of the foreign cultural ghetto. Someone already mentioned getting Chinese roommates — I totally agree. Bonus points if they have bad English that’s worse than your Chinese (relationships tend to eventually default to whichever language is easiest to communicate in, even if you start with a language learning agreement in the beginning).
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